Monday, December 26, 2016

Re: World's Oldest Religion & Scriptures

Simple formula to help explain life. E+R =O.  Events + Response=Outcome.  In other words shit happens through out our lifetime and how we choose to react will determine the outcome. Accept the good and be great full, accept the bad as challenges to overcome.  Be thankful for each day and try to make a difference. 
Larry

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 26, 2016, at 5:03 AM, rhino ranch <jamesgreenbaum2000@gmail.com> wrote:

Tom
Next time, you are greeted by the Maori Elder ... say ...  "what barbeque sauce ...I'm ready for new experiences."  

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 4:59 AM, rhino ranch <jamesgreenbaum2000@gmail.com> wrote:
awesome reply Tom ... Hallelujah 
I am patiently waiting for the Sun God to awaken and rise up in the East and shed some warmth and light on our frozen landscape .... oh, wait, I mean, I am patiently waiting for Planet Earth to continue its wobbly, off axis rotation toward the Sun on this fine winter day ...

On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 11:23 PM, Tom Greenbaum <karmatetra@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks to Rhino for starting this contemplative email chain.
Thanks to Rob for your insightful reply and well wishes.
Larry? Aloha bruh. What's up?
Happy year-end/winter-begin celebrations.
It is an interesting time for the Northern hemisphere folks for sure.
Lots of ritual and cultural traditions.
How far back does all of this go?
Probably as far back as Homo Sapien started conceptualizing seasonal cycles.
That's pretty f-ing far back.
Waaaayyyy previous to theistic concepts (religions), deities, gods, etc.
The ancients first cognated the great powers central to all life processes
The elements, sun, moon, earth, stars, planets, animal, vegetable,
Male, female, child, elder, river, lake, ocean, mountain, desert, valley, etc.
You know, the really big stuff that has real big impact to primitive people.
Creation stories came later; of secondary importantance to our really ancient ancestors.
The sun god (Ra) was the greatest of all personifications.
Creator of day
The rule of the sun over every aspect of human existence is undeniable.
The sun descends into the netherworld and the earth becomes dark.
The great infinite plane of earth divides the universe into heaven above
And the unseen, dark world beneath our feet.
The dead are buried in the netherworld (although burial is not a universal cultural practice)
Only the mighty sun god Ra may travel to the netherworld daily 
Ra defies death
Rising above every glorious morning, starting a new day.
Religion and rules of behavior and morality came much later.
Ra ruled civilization for thousands of years
Ra ruled until the Pharoahs claimed ownership of Ra's title
Monotheism eventually replaced pantheism
A single creator god could then replace the oppression of the Pharoah  
Hah, hah, hah, ho, ho, ho ...

Wonderful experience in Hawaii at the Polynesian Cultural Center.
The Pacific Island peoples' culture was quite advanced
Their understanding of celestial navigation combined with their 
Tremendous skills building ocean-going vessels 
Harnessing forces of wind and water (Wai),
To travel great distances across the Pacific ocean.
These feats were impressive, especially given the resource constraints,
But it is amazing to see the products they derived from the coconut palm tree.
Also, note that the Pacific Island people did not believe in a single creator god,
In fact, they did not conceive of monotheism -- it was not needed.
Their beliefs were still aligned with the very ancient respect of the sun god Ra,
And the other gods of mountains, rivers, sea, wind, etc.
They never had to deal with a Pharoah so pantheism persisted.
Neither did they share a common set of religious precepts, or morale edicts.
Back in 2012 I had the rare privilege of 
Spending several weeks with a great New Zealand Maori Elder, 
Te Huirangi Waikerepuru and his daughter Te Urutahi Waikerepuru were my guests.
I brought them to Albuquerque on an Intel Artist Residency which I managed during the
ISEA 2012 (International Symposium on Electronic Arts) festival.
During that time I had the rare privilege of learning from a remarkable Maori elder.
Te Huirangi Waikerepuru told me that the concept of a single god
Responsible for the creation of all the universe
Was quite humorous....
Hah, hah, hah, ho, ho, ho ...
In regards to religious rules of behavior and moral conduct,
Te Huirangi Waikerepuru told me the traditional welcome in the Maori language,
Given to a visitor of their village, approximately translated as:
"Welcome to our village, we will treat you as our family,
But if you fuck with us, we will eat you and shit you out."
The kindly old Maori Elder actually said this to me including the expletive.
They still repeat this greeting, although they don't mean it literally anymore.
That was really the only moral code they needed.
In older times, they kept that code literally, as they were fierce warriors
Cannabalism was the custom 
Following the defeat of enemy warriors
They ate them, and as it goes ... they shit them out. 
Hah, hah, hah, ho, ho, ho.

Wishing everyone a wonderful winter season
Stay warm and feel protected always
May earth's abundance be available to you even in the depths of winter
May you wake up morning after miraculous morning 
Face east and consider the sunrise
Which in actuality is the spinning of earth on its axis tilted
To the ecliptic, which is the great plane created by earth's
Orbit about the sun, the sun is the sole source
Source of all matter and energy in our local planetary system
Except for the heavy elements such as uranium which the earth
Received from other suns exploding at great distances but still
Within a galactic neighborhood of stars and star systems
All orbiting a great supermassive black hole at the center of
One spiral galaxy amongst almost inconceivable numbers of
Other galaxies included within the known universe.
Let us be thankful for all this at the beginning of each day
And the fact that we as human beings have sentience
Our mind capable of imagining all this glory.
Where our mind's eye reaches
There exposed is existence
All else is unknown
Hallelujah!
Love,
Tom 

See photo of me with the Matahiapo Artist Residency meeting at Intel for the first time. 
ISEA 2012 Exhibition
ISEA 2012 Exhibition
Matahiapo and Tom Greenbaum meet for the first time in preparation for a collaboration during ISEA 2012 
  

See Wikipedia article:
Dr Huirangi Eruera Waikerepuru (CNZM) is a New Zealand Māori language activist and trade unionist. Of Taranaki and Ngāpuhi descent, he was active in the foundation and governance of Māori language radio and television.  

 

On Dec 25, 2016 9:02 AM, "rhino ranch" <jamesgreenbaum2000@gmail.com> wrote:
actually -- I think that there may be more than one correct answer, if one is willing to recognize the general similarities in the message taking into consideration differences in cultural influences, language and development -- all the world's religions, in one way or another, attempt to explain the universe and our existence with terms and imagery that clearly require us to recognize a temporal physical presence marked by suffering with tenets requiring observance through certain moral codes of a force, power or spirit beyond our bodies all for the purpose of bringing harmony, peace, love and well-being to the world. Naturally, there are some exceptions to the last part of that sentence mostly because of adherents to violence overcome by the darkside. 

On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 8:01 AM, Robert Greenbaum <greenbaum.rob@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting thing is the history that we can track is only a few thousand years old whereas the planet is millions of years old. So what happened before man started thinking and coming up with reasons to explain life?

There are many different religions and many have similar beginnings but can't be all right. So study all of them to cover your bases.

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukah to all! And a splendid Kwanzaa too. Hope you had a beautiful Bodhi Day. To all my Zoroastrian friends, best wishes on Yalda.

Mahalo 

Rob


On Dec 24, 2016, at 10:11 AM, rhino ranch <jamesgreenbaum2000@gmail.com> wrote:

Often, I have heard claims that the Torah is the word of god, scribed by hand by Moses -- that it is not open to debate.  No other religion is true or correct.  Jesus could not have been the Son of God, didn't happen because of x y & z didn't happen, and there is no real proof that he was the Messiah.  And of course this is all premised on the acceptance of the first book as being divine ... which is then further substantiated by self-proving tautologies [note intentional redundancy].  Can't argue or doubt that which is clearly stated to be the word of god, right.  As if no one else on the planet has contemplated existence, no other religious texts or religions are valid whether pre or post the old book.  

And of course, we remain to ponder too the possibility that there is no god in the sense of a singular spiritual being or creator in the image of a heavenly father spiritually embodied in the form of a single man.  That it may be possible there was no creation.  There is no order to the universe or that there is but that order does not necessitate the existence of a creator anymore than randomness. Perhaps the best we can do is to attempt to struggle to make our lives cause less harm and pain or suffering  while acknowledging that there are things that we may never know beyond our language or intellect to understand, comprehend or communicate.

History of religious texts[edit]

A complication is presented when studying the history of religious texts because many religious traditions existing within oral tradition instead of within written tradition. Oral tradition includes many of the same elements included in written religious texts.[3] Again, there may have been texts printed which are not widely considered as religious or did not survive throughout history, as well as texts whose religiosity is debated. Furthermore, scholarly debate surrounding the timeline of known religious text creates discrepancy, but some texts commonly believed to among the oldest in existence are given as follows:

Of written tradition, one of the oldest known religious texts is the Kesh Temple Hymn of Ancient Sumer,[4][5] a set of inscribed clay tablets which scholars typically date around 2600 BCE.[6] The Epic of Gilgamesh from Sumer, although only considered by some scholars as a religious text, has origins as early as 2150-2000 BCE, and stands as one of the earliest literary works that includes various mythological figures and themes of interaction with the divine.[7] The Rig Veda of ancient Hinduism is estimated to have been composed between 1700–1100 BCE, which not only denotes it as one of the oldest known religious texts, but also one of the oldest written religious text which is still actively used in religious practice to this day.

There are many possible dates given to the first writings which can be connected to Talmudic and Biblical traditions, the earliest of which is found in scribal documentation of the 8th Century BCE,[8] followed by administrative documentation from temples of the 5th and 6th Centuries BCE,[9] with another common date being the 2nd century BCE.[9] Although a significant text in the history of religious text because of its widespread use among religious denominations and its continued use throughout history, the texts of the Abrahamic traditions are a good example of the lack of certainty surrounding dates and definitions of religious texts.

High rates of mass production and distribution of religious texts did begin until the invention of the printing press in 1440,[10] before which all religious texts were hand written copies of very which there were relatively limited quantities in circulation.




Re: World's Oldest Religion & Scriptures

Tom
Next time, you are greeted by the Maori Elder ... say ...  "what barbeque sauce ...I'm ready for new experiences."  

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 4:59 AM, rhino ranch <jamesgreenbaum2000@gmail.com> wrote:
awesome reply Tom ... Hallelujah 
I am patiently waiting for the Sun God to awaken and rise up in the East and shed some warmth and light on our frozen landscape .... oh, wait, I mean, I am patiently waiting for Planet Earth to continue its wobbly, off axis rotation toward the Sun on this fine winter day ...

On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 11:23 PM, Tom Greenbaum <karmatetra@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks to Rhino for starting this contemplative email chain.
Thanks to Rob for your insightful reply and well wishes.
Larry? Aloha bruh. What's up?
Happy year-end/winter-begin celebrations.
It is an interesting time for the Northern hemisphere folks for sure.
Lots of ritual and cultural traditions.
How far back does all of this go?
Probably as far back as Homo Sapien started conceptualizing seasonal cycles.
That's pretty f-ing far back.
Waaaayyyy previous to theistic concepts (religions), deities, gods, etc.
The ancients first cognated the great powers central to all life processes
The elements, sun, moon, earth, stars, planets, animal, vegetable,
Male, female, child, elder, river, lake, ocean, mountain, desert, valley, etc.
You know, the really big stuff that has real big impact to primitive people.
Creation stories came later; of secondary importantance to our really ancient ancestors.
The sun god (Ra) was the greatest of all personifications.
Creator of day
The rule of the sun over every aspect of human existence is undeniable.
The sun descends into the netherworld and the earth becomes dark.
The great infinite plane of earth divides the universe into heaven above
And the unseen, dark world beneath our feet.
The dead are buried in the netherworld (although burial is not a universal cultural practice)
Only the mighty sun god Ra may travel to the netherworld daily 
Ra defies death
Rising above every glorious morning, starting a new day.
Religion and rules of behavior and morality came much later.
Ra ruled civilization for thousands of years
Ra ruled until the Pharoahs claimed ownership of Ra's title
Monotheism eventually replaced pantheism
A single creator god could then replace the oppression of the Pharoah  
Hah, hah, hah, ho, ho, ho ...

Wonderful experience in Hawaii at the Polynesian Cultural Center.
The Pacific Island peoples' culture was quite advanced
Their understanding of celestial navigation combined with their 
Tremendous skills building ocean-going vessels 
Harnessing forces of wind and water (Wai),
To travel great distances across the Pacific ocean.
These feats were impressive, especially given the resource constraints,
But it is amazing to see the products they derived from the coconut palm tree.
Also, note that the Pacific Island people did not believe in a single creator god,
In fact, they did not conceive of monotheism -- it was not needed.
Their beliefs were still aligned with the very ancient respect of the sun god Ra,
And the other gods of mountains, rivers, sea, wind, etc.
They never had to deal with a Pharoah so pantheism persisted.
Neither did they share a common set of religious precepts, or morale edicts.
Back in 2012 I had the rare privilege of 
Spending several weeks with a great New Zealand Maori Elder, 
Te Huirangi Waikerepuru and his daughter Te Urutahi Waikerepuru were my guests.
I brought them to Albuquerque on an Intel Artist Residency which I managed during the
ISEA 2012 (International Symposium on Electronic Arts) festival.
During that time I had the rare privilege of learning from a remarkable Maori elder.
Te Huirangi Waikerepuru told me that the concept of a single god
Responsible for the creation of all the universe
Was quite humorous....
Hah, hah, hah, ho, ho, ho ...
In regards to religious rules of behavior and moral conduct,
Te Huirangi Waikerepuru told me the traditional welcome in the Maori language,
Given to a visitor of their village, approximately translated as:
"Welcome to our village, we will treat you as our family,
But if you fuck with us, we will eat you and shit you out."
The kindly old Maori Elder actually said this to me including the expletive.
They still repeat this greeting, although they don't mean it literally anymore.
That was really the only moral code they needed.
In older times, they kept that code literally, as they were fierce warriors
Cannabalism was the custom 
Following the defeat of enemy warriors
They ate them, and as it goes ... they shit them out. 
Hah, hah, hah, ho, ho, ho.

Wishing everyone a wonderful winter season
Stay warm and feel protected always
May earth's abundance be available to you even in the depths of winter
May you wake up morning after miraculous morning 
Face east and consider the sunrise
Which in actuality is the spinning of earth on its axis tilted
To the ecliptic, which is the great plane created by earth's
Orbit about the sun, the sun is the sole source
Source of all matter and energy in our local planetary system
Except for the heavy elements such as uranium which the earth
Received from other suns exploding at great distances but still
Within a galactic neighborhood of stars and star systems
All orbiting a great supermassive black hole at the center of
One spiral galaxy amongst almost inconceivable numbers of
Other galaxies included within the known universe.
Let us be thankful for all this at the beginning of each day
And the fact that we as human beings have sentience
Our mind capable of imagining all this glory.
Where our mind's eye reaches
There exposed is existence
All else is unknown
Hallelujah!
Love,
Tom 

See photo of me with the Matahiapo Artist Residency meeting at Intel for the first time. 
ISEA 2012 Exhibition
ISEA 2012 Exhibition
Matahiapo and Tom Greenbaum meet for the first time in preparation for a collaboration during ISEA 2012 
  

See Wikipedia article:
Dr Huirangi Eruera Waikerepuru (CNZM) is a New Zealand Māori language activist and trade unionist. Of Taranaki and Ngāpuhi descent, he was active in the foundation and governance of Māori language radio and television.  

 

On Dec 25, 2016 9:02 AM, "rhino ranch" <jamesgreenbaum2000@gmail.com> wrote:
actually -- I think that there may be more than one correct answer, if one is willing to recognize the general similarities in the message taking into consideration differences in cultural influences, language and development -- all the world's religions, in one way or another, attempt to explain the universe and our existence with terms and imagery that clearly require us to recognize a temporal physical presence marked by suffering with tenets requiring observance through certain moral codes of a force, power or spirit beyond our bodies all for the purpose of bringing harmony, peace, love and well-being to the world. Naturally, there are some exceptions to the last part of that sentence mostly because of adherents to violence overcome by the darkside. 

On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 8:01 AM, Robert Greenbaum <greenbaum.rob@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting thing is the history that we can track is only a few thousand years old whereas the planet is millions of years old. So what happened before man started thinking and coming up with reasons to explain life?

There are many different religions and many have similar beginnings but can't be all right. So study all of them to cover your bases.

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukah to all! And a splendid Kwanzaa too. Hope you had a beautiful Bodhi Day. To all my Zoroastrian friends, best wishes on Yalda.

Mahalo 

Rob


On Dec 24, 2016, at 10:11 AM, rhino ranch <jamesgreenbaum2000@gmail.com> wrote:

Often, I have heard claims that the Torah is the word of god, scribed by hand by Moses -- that it is not open to debate.  No other religion is true or correct.  Jesus could not have been the Son of God, didn't happen because of x y & z didn't happen, and there is no real proof that he was the Messiah.  And of course this is all premised on the acceptance of the first book as being divine ... which is then further substantiated by self-proving tautologies [note intentional redundancy].  Can't argue or doubt that which is clearly stated to be the word of god, right.  As if no one else on the planet has contemplated existence, no other religious texts or religions are valid whether pre or post the old book.  

And of course, we remain to ponder too the possibility that there is no god in the sense of a singular spiritual being or creator in the image of a heavenly father spiritually embodied in the form of a single man.  That it may be possible there was no creation.  There is no order to the universe or that there is but that order does not necessitate the existence of a creator anymore than randomness. Perhaps the best we can do is to attempt to struggle to make our lives cause less harm and pain or suffering  while acknowledging that there are things that we may never know beyond our language or intellect to understand, comprehend or communicate.

History of religious texts[edit]

A complication is presented when studying the history of religious texts because many religious traditions existing within oral tradition instead of within written tradition. Oral tradition includes many of the same elements included in written religious texts.[3] Again, there may have been texts printed which are not widely considered as religious or did not survive throughout history, as well as texts whose religiosity is debated. Furthermore, scholarly debate surrounding the timeline of known religious text creates discrepancy, but some texts commonly believed to among the oldest in existence are given as follows:

Of written tradition, one of the oldest known religious texts is the Kesh Temple Hymn of Ancient Sumer,[4][5] a set of inscribed clay tablets which scholars typically date around 2600 BCE.[6] The Epic of Gilgamesh from Sumer, although only considered by some scholars as a religious text, has origins as early as 2150-2000 BCE, and stands as one of the earliest literary works that includes various mythological figures and themes of interaction with the divine.[7] The Rig Veda of ancient Hinduism is estimated to have been composed between 1700–1100 BCE, which not only denotes it as one of the oldest known religious texts, but also one of the oldest written religious text which is still actively used in religious practice to this day.

There are many possible dates given to the first writings which can be connected to Talmudic and Biblical traditions, the earliest of which is found in scribal documentation of the 8th Century BCE,[8] followed by administrative documentation from temples of the 5th and 6th Centuries BCE,[9] with another common date being the 2nd century BCE.[9] Although a significant text in the history of religious text because of its widespread use among religious denominations and its continued use throughout history, the texts of the Abrahamic traditions are a good example of the lack of certainty surrounding dates and definitions of religious texts.

High rates of mass production and distribution of religious texts did begin until the invention of the printing press in 1440,[10] before which all religious texts were hand written copies of very which there were relatively limited quantities in circulation.




Re: World's Oldest Religion & Scriptures

awesome reply Tom ... Hallelujah 
I am patiently waiting for the Sun God to awaken and rise up in the East and shed some warmth and light on our frozen landscape .... oh, wait, I mean, I am patiently waiting for Planet Earth to continue its wobbly, off axis rotation toward the Sun on this fine winter day ...

On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 11:23 PM, Tom Greenbaum <karmatetra@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks to Rhino for starting this contemplative email chain.
Thanks to Rob for your insightful reply and well wishes.
Larry? Aloha bruh. What's up?
Happy year-end/winter-begin celebrations.
It is an interesting time for the Northern hemisphere folks for sure.
Lots of ritual and cultural traditions.
How far back does all of this go?
Probably as far back as Homo Sapien started conceptualizing seasonal cycles.
That's pretty f-ing far back.
Waaaayyyy previous to theistic concepts (religions), deities, gods, etc.
The ancients first cognated the great powers central to all life processes
The elements, sun, moon, earth, stars, planets, animal, vegetable,
Male, female, child, elder, river, lake, ocean, mountain, desert, valley, etc.
You know, the really big stuff that has real big impact to primitive people.
Creation stories came later; of secondary importantance to our really ancient ancestors.
The sun god (Ra) was the greatest of all personifications.
Creator of day
The rule of the sun over every aspect of human existence is undeniable.
The sun descends into the netherworld and the earth becomes dark.
The great infinite plane of earth divides the universe into heaven above
And the unseen, dark world beneath our feet.
The dead are buried in the netherworld (although burial is not a universal cultural practice)
Only the mighty sun god Ra may travel to the netherworld daily 
Ra defies death
Rising above every glorious morning, starting a new day.
Religion and rules of behavior and morality came much later.
Ra ruled civilization for thousands of years
Ra ruled until the Pharoahs claimed ownership of Ra's title
Monotheism eventually replaced pantheism
A single creator god could then replace the oppression of the Pharoah  
Hah, hah, hah, ho, ho, ho ...

Wonderful experience in Hawaii at the Polynesian Cultural Center.
The Pacific Island peoples' culture was quite advanced
Their understanding of celestial navigation combined with their 
Tremendous skills building ocean-going vessels 
Harnessing forces of wind and water (Wai),
To travel great distances across the Pacific ocean.
These feats were impressive, especially given the resource constraints,
But it is amazing to see the products they derived from the coconut palm tree.
Also, note that the Pacific Island people did not believe in a single creator god,
In fact, they did not conceive of monotheism -- it was not needed.
Their beliefs were still aligned with the very ancient respect of the sun god Ra,
And the other gods of mountains, rivers, sea, wind, etc.
They never had to deal with a Pharoah so pantheism persisted.
Neither did they share a common set of religious precepts, or morale edicts.
Back in 2012 I had the rare privilege of 
Spending several weeks with a great New Zealand Maori Elder, 
Te Huirangi Waikerepuru and his daughter Te Urutahi Waikerepuru were my guests.
I brought them to Albuquerque on an Intel Artist Residency which I managed during the
ISEA 2012 (International Symposium on Electronic Arts) festival.
During that time I had the rare privilege of learning from a remarkable Maori elder.
Te Huirangi Waikerepuru told me that the concept of a single god
Responsible for the creation of all the universe
Was quite humorous....
Hah, hah, hah, ho, ho, ho ...
In regards to religious rules of behavior and moral conduct,
Te Huirangi Waikerepuru told me the traditional welcome in the Maori language,
Given to a visitor of their village, approximately translated as:
"Welcome to our village, we will treat you as our family,
But if you fuck with us, we will eat you and shit you out."
The kindly old Maori Elder actually said this to me including the expletive.
They still repeat this greeting, although they don't mean it literally anymore.
That was really the only moral code they needed.
In older times, they kept that code literally, as they were fierce warriors
Cannabalism was the custom 
Following the defeat of enemy warriors
They ate them, and as it goes ... they shit them out. 
Hah, hah, hah, ho, ho, ho.

Wishing everyone a wonderful winter season
Stay warm and feel protected always
May earth's abundance be available to you even in the depths of winter
May you wake up morning after miraculous morning 
Face east and consider the sunrise
Which in actuality is the spinning of earth on its axis tilted
To the ecliptic, which is the great plane created by earth's
Orbit about the sun, the sun is the sole source
Source of all matter and energy in our local planetary system
Except for the heavy elements such as uranium which the earth
Received from other suns exploding at great distances but still
Within a galactic neighborhood of stars and star systems
All orbiting a great supermassive black hole at the center of
One spiral galaxy amongst almost inconceivable numbers of
Other galaxies included within the known universe.
Let us be thankful for all this at the beginning of each day
And the fact that we as human beings have sentience
Our mind capable of imagining all this glory.
Where our mind's eye reaches
There exposed is existence
All else is unknown
Hallelujah!
Love,
Tom 

See photo of me with the Matahiapo Artist Residency meeting at Intel for the first time. 
ISEA 2012 Exhibition
ISEA 2012 Exhibition
Matahiapo and Tom Greenbaum meet for the first time in preparation for a collaboration during ISEA 2012 
  

See Wikipedia article:
Dr Huirangi Eruera Waikerepuru (CNZM) is a New Zealand Māori language activist and trade unionist. Of Taranaki and Ngāpuhi descent, he was active in the foundation and governance of Māori language radio and television.  

 

On Dec 25, 2016 9:02 AM, "rhino ranch" <jamesgreenbaum2000@gmail.com> wrote:
actually -- I think that there may be more than one correct answer, if one is willing to recognize the general similarities in the message taking into consideration differences in cultural influences, language and development -- all the world's religions, in one way or another, attempt to explain the universe and our existence with terms and imagery that clearly require us to recognize a temporal physical presence marked by suffering with tenets requiring observance through certain moral codes of a force, power or spirit beyond our bodies all for the purpose of bringing harmony, peace, love and well-being to the world. Naturally, there are some exceptions to the last part of that sentence mostly because of adherents to violence overcome by the darkside. 

On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 8:01 AM, Robert Greenbaum <greenbaum.rob@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting thing is the history that we can track is only a few thousand years old whereas the planet is millions of years old. So what happened before man started thinking and coming up with reasons to explain life?

There are many different religions and many have similar beginnings but can't be all right. So study all of them to cover your bases.

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukah to all! And a splendid Kwanzaa too. Hope you had a beautiful Bodhi Day. To all my Zoroastrian friends, best wishes on Yalda.

Mahalo 

Rob


On Dec 24, 2016, at 10:11 AM, rhino ranch <jamesgreenbaum2000@gmail.com> wrote:

Often, I have heard claims that the Torah is the word of god, scribed by hand by Moses -- that it is not open to debate.  No other religion is true or correct.  Jesus could not have been the Son of God, didn't happen because of x y & z didn't happen, and there is no real proof that he was the Messiah.  And of course this is all premised on the acceptance of the first book as being divine ... which is then further substantiated by self-proving tautologies [note intentional redundancy].  Can't argue or doubt that which is clearly stated to be the word of god, right.  As if no one else on the planet has contemplated existence, no other religious texts or religions are valid whether pre or post the old book.  

And of course, we remain to ponder too the possibility that there is no god in the sense of a singular spiritual being or creator in the image of a heavenly father spiritually embodied in the form of a single man.  That it may be possible there was no creation.  There is no order to the universe or that there is but that order does not necessitate the existence of a creator anymore than randomness. Perhaps the best we can do is to attempt to struggle to make our lives cause less harm and pain or suffering  while acknowledging that there are things that we may never know beyond our language or intellect to understand, comprehend or communicate.

History of religious texts[edit]

A complication is presented when studying the history of religious texts because many religious traditions existing within oral tradition instead of within written tradition. Oral tradition includes many of the same elements included in written religious texts.[3] Again, there may have been texts printed which are not widely considered as religious or did not survive throughout history, as well as texts whose religiosity is debated. Furthermore, scholarly debate surrounding the timeline of known religious text creates discrepancy, but some texts commonly believed to among the oldest in existence are given as follows:

Of written tradition, one of the oldest known religious texts is the Kesh Temple Hymn of Ancient Sumer,[4][5] a set of inscribed clay tablets which scholars typically date around 2600 BCE.[6] The Epic of Gilgamesh from Sumer, although only considered by some scholars as a religious text, has origins as early as 2150-2000 BCE, and stands as one of the earliest literary works that includes various mythological figures and themes of interaction with the divine.[7] The Rig Veda of ancient Hinduism is estimated to have been composed between 1700–1100 BCE, which not only denotes it as one of the oldest known religious texts, but also one of the oldest written religious text which is still actively used in religious practice to this day.

There are many possible dates given to the first writings which can be connected to Talmudic and Biblical traditions, the earliest of which is found in scribal documentation of the 8th Century BCE,[8] followed by administrative documentation from temples of the 5th and 6th Centuries BCE,[9] with another common date being the 2nd century BCE.[9] Although a significant text in the history of religious text because of its widespread use among religious denominations and its continued use throughout history, the texts of the Abrahamic traditions are a good example of the lack of certainty surrounding dates and definitions of religious texts.

High rates of mass production and distribution of religious texts did begin until the invention of the printing press in 1440,[10] before which all religious texts were hand written copies of very which there were relatively limited quantities in circulation.